tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post7417835866240122868..comments2023-09-02T08:11:21.871+02:00Comments on Un grain de sable: Obsolescence programmée et asymétrie de l'informationQuentin Ruyanthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18395553776256376317noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-62160471113937924542013-05-25T20:07:44.769+02:002013-05-25T20:07:44.769+02:00Unless bounded rationality theories become obsolet...Unless bounded rationality theories become obsolete ;-)<br /><br />I am very dubious that there would exist a single possible (or "natural") organisation for managing products and/or ideas. I think different organisations can lead to different advantages and problems. In economy, for example, private property on which our current system is based could well be questioned (one could imagine a universal renting system for example) and this can impact the way some aspects, such as life span, are favoured or not over others, as well as wealth inequalities which tend to bias the system. Collective control over the economy is also an important factor.Quentin Ruyanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395553776256376317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-34792458601359055532013-05-25T18:33:03.342+02:002013-05-25T18:33:03.342+02:00I've been getting more interested in the bound...I've been getting more interested in the bounded rationality literature because of this sort of problem. <br /><br />Instead of merely trying to find alternatives, the game theory/ bounded rationality people can put valuations on outcomes, thoughts, etc. So, even if our theories are subject to obsolescence, this won't catch us by surprise because we will have already understood their value.Noahhttp://www.noahgreenstein.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-4291371142175834112013-05-22T08:41:49.497+02:002013-05-22T08:41:49.497+02:00I think you are right, there are similarities betw...I think you are right, there are similarities between ideas and products. Hopefully there are alternatives to a system which favour appearences over durability, and we should definitely promote such alternatives.Quentin Ruyanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395553776256376317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-17608675611611714992013-05-20T20:20:40.325+02:002013-05-20T20:20:40.325+02:00Ideas aren't so different from products. It i...Ideas aren't so different from products. It isn't true that there is no cost of transmission, though it may be smaller than that of other products, since we each have limited resources (e.g. memory) and ability to communicate. Books and other texts can last a long time, but they still have costs associated with them.<br /><br />Also the original context and institutions that supported the ideas fade over time. This happens quite regularly when interpreting ancient texts: we use modern words to understand the old texts, but our words have different meanings and connotations than the words originally did. This leads to novel interpretations that could not have possibly been what the author intended. Likewise institutions have supported certain ideas over time, e.g. the church supported certain views of the solar system and banned books and arrested people that disagreed. This definitely affected the economy of ideas at the time.<br /><br />Hence I do not see how there is a insurmountable difference between the economy of products and ideas. Sure the time scales, and modes of production and transmission are different, but I still see ideas being subject to very similar forces.Noahhttp://www.noahgreenstein.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-67791398620350676192013-05-20T18:59:52.305+02:002013-05-20T18:59:52.305+02:00@noah
Your comment puzzled me. I am not sure how f...@noah<br />Your comment puzzled me. I am not sure how far the analogy can be drawn between capitalism and philosophy beyond cases where one directly impact the other (for example, when scholars are pressured to publish many papers for concurency reasons). It seems to me that unlike manufactured products, ideas can be shared and used without much cost and can last for centuries. But maybe could you develop what you had in mind?Quentin Ruyanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395553776256376317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-41571499486393147192013-05-20T18:51:20.453+02:002013-05-20T18:51:20.453+02:00@dr goulu mon utilisation de "évident" e...@dr goulu mon utilisation de "évident" est loin d'être gratuite : je l'appuie par des arguments tout au long de l'article. De plus il s'agit d'argumenter sur un écart vis à vis d'un optimum correspondant à une situation théorique idéale. Je ne vois pas en quoi des études expérimentales seraient requises. Par contre il y a un véritable problème à croire qu'un marché libre tendra en principe vers une situation optimale et c'est principalement ce postulat que je critique. Mais c'est une question théorique / conceptuelle, pas expérimentale.<br /><br />Je suis bien conscient du fait que la durée de vie d'un produit est très difficile à estimer c'est pourquoi j'ai utilisé délibérément la locution "durée espérée" et c'est pourquoi je rejette d'entrée l'idée d'un complot. Ce n'est pas pour autant qu'elle ne pourrait pas être améliorée en utilisant des composants de meilleure qualité, ou que les produits ne pourraient être rendus plus facilement réparables si les conditions du marché étaient différentes. Il existe des produits de durée de vie diverse, du jetable au produit de luxe qui dure presque éternellement, dans toutes les catégories. Je me contente juste de montrer qu'une économie de marché libérale ne peut que faire pencher la balance vers le jetable (par rapport à une situation d'information idéale).Quentin Ruyanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395553776256376317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-17194664576898533322013-05-20T18:16:03.420+02:002013-05-20T18:16:03.420+02:00Il "semble évident" beaucoup de choses ;...Il "semble évident" beaucoup de choses ;-) Vous utilisez cette expression deux fois, plus une fois "il est évident". Or justement, si c'était évident il y aurait des faits avérés, et des publications étudiant ces faits. Or je n'en ai pas trouvé, voir http://www.drgoulu.com/2013/05/01/lobsolescence-est-elle-programmee-2/"<br /><br />Par contre il existe plusieurs études théoriques de l'obsolescence programmée, montrant qu'effectivement, dans certaines situations de marché (de monopole notamment), elle pourrait se produire.<br /><br />J'aime bien votre idée d'asymétrie d'information car il me "semble évident" qu'elle correspond à une réalité : les clients/utilisateurs/consommateurs n'ont aucune idée de comment fonctionne le produit qu'ils achètent, comment il a été conçu et fabriqué. Ils n'ont aucune idée des marges le long de la chaîne de distribution non plus, par exemple qu'un iPhone coûte entre 10 et 30$ ( http://www.gizmodo.fr/2012/02/24/le-cout-de-production-de-liphone-finalement-devoile.html )<br /><br />Et en particulier, personne ne réalise que la dispersion des durées de vie des composants implique que la durée de vie moyenne d'un produit soit un multiple de la durée de garantie ! <br />( http://eric.cabrol.free.fr/dotclear/index.php/2013/05/02/1296-obsolescence-programmee )<br /><br />Bref, peut-être qu'il est aussi temps que les gens comprennent qu'un téléphone portable est légèrement plus complexe que le téléphone en bakélite de grand-mère.Dr. Gouluhttp://drgoulu.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2904928175656435462.post-88738898800818745442013-05-20T16:55:49.685+02:002013-05-20T16:55:49.685+02:00The question I want answered is: Do theories have ...The question I want answered is: Do theories have expiration dates? Is planned obsolescence built into philosophical discourse?<br /><br />If we apply market economics to philosophical communities and thought, I can't see how to avoid the conclusion that all of our ideas have a built-in lifespan. <br /><br />I'm even inclined to think that this has always been the case and may even be somewhat metaphysical in nature. This worries me.Noahhttp://www.noahgreenstein.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.com